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“By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them”

Updated: Jan 8

Interview on Vatican secrets with Father Charles Theodore Murr / Part 2

Part 1 of this interview can be found here.

By Kevin J. Symonds, M.A.



Fr. Charles T. Murr sat down for an interview for the October 2020 issue of Inside the Vatican about his book The Godmother (2017). Interested readers may want to read that interview first in order to gain more understanding of the context for the present one. In the previous interview, Fr. Murr told us about his friendship with Mother Pascalina Lehnert, the “right hand” of Pope Pius XII for several decades. In addition to this discussion, Fr. Murr made some notable revelations about what was going on at the Vatican in the 1960s and 1970s. The interview below follows up on these revelations with the theme of “Where do we go from here?”


ITV: Thank you, Fr. Murr, for sitting down again with Inside the Vatican. In our previous interview, you spoke of your association with Cardinal Edouard Gagnon and Msgr. Mario Marini. These two men worked closely with the Sostituto of the Secretariat of State, Cardinal Benelli, in the 1970s. You yourself, however, did not enjoy the same association with Cardinal Benelli…

ITV: Thank you, Fr. Murr, for sitting down again with Inside the Vatican. In our previous interview, you spoke of your association with Cardinal Edouard Gagnon and Msgr. Mario Marini. These two men worked closely with the Sostituto of the Secretariat of State, Cardinal Benelli, in the 1970s. You yourself, however, did not enjoy the same association with Cardinal Benelli…


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